Interview with Jörg Widmann

I’d heard Jörg Widmann’s music on multiple occasions over the past few years: Cleveland Orchestra’s all-Widmann program at the Berlin Philharmonie in 2014, at a class concert at Universität der Künste Berlin in 2015, and the NY premiere of his Clarinet Quintet at Carnegie with Widmann himself performing with the Hagen Quartet in 2019. But it wasn’t until this past summer at Marlboro Festival that I got to meet him in person. From the first moment I saw him, he struck me as an incredibly generous, humble, and approachable person. Sadly, we didn’t collaborate at the festival, but when I asked to do the interview he very kindly accepted and found the time for us despite his busy schedule —right after he performed his own work, on his last day at the festival! Thank you, Jörg, for your generosity and for your time!

What was the first piece by Janáček you'd ever heard?

It was his wind quintet, Mladi [Youth] (JW VII/10). I also heard his Concertino (JW VII/11) at around the same time and fell equally in love with it. This piece, I think, is truly revolutionary — but it doesn’t make a show of it. I’m obsessed with the poetry of his music and its very unusual approach.

How would you describe Janáček’s music to someone who isn’t familiar with it?

It’s surprising at every turn. Where others wouldn’t repeat a motif anymore, he’d do it twelve more times. When you’d love to hear something again, he’d stop it brutally, like film cuts. So I’d describe Janáček as a modern composer, but his music contains traditional elements too, so it’s both archaic and modern at the same time!

Janáček saw himself as belonging to the slavic tradition of music. Is there a specific culture or musical tradition that you identify with?

I was born in Munich. It’s the city of Richard Strauss. It’s the city of the Bavarian State Opera, the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra and the Bayerischer Rundfunk, all of whose concerts I attended as a child. These were my formative influences.

I then went to study at Juilliard and I’ve since traveled around the world. But if you were to ask me where I come from, musically speaking, I’d say it’s the German-Austrian tradition. This is reflected in my compositions. For example, my Octet (2004) is an homage to Schubert’s and my Clarinet Quintet (2017) wouldn’t have been possible without the examples that Mozart, Brahms and Reger had set. So I'm very much aware of where I come from and I feel that it’s my obligation to do something new with it.

But I have other influences too. In my childhood bedroom, I had two photographs on the wall — one of Pierre Boulez and one of Miles Davis. They were my heroes. I used to listen to Miles Davis all day. But I also listened to Boulez and Stockhausen. This wasn’t a contradiction for me at all.

So I’d say that I belong not just to the German-Austrian tradition, but also to a bigger European tradition. And I feel that Miles Davis fits into this tradition too. I mean, Miles Davis himself says in his autobiography that he listened to Stockhausen, that he loved Puccini and you can tell. Besides, even the German-Austrian tradition itself has all these influences from Eastern Europe — Hungarian, Czech, even Turkish — so it’s always been a part of something bigger.

But I must mention that it’s also a broken tradition, especially after the experience of the last century. It’s not a tradition that you can be wholly enthusiastic about. I’m reminded, for example, of Thomas Mann’s Betrachtungen eines Unpolitischen [Observations of a Nonpolitical Man], written shortly before the First World War. It contains invectives against the French, against the English, but it’s also an  example of the most refined German writing. How can you not feel ambivalent about that?

Janáček struggled to achieve recognition as a composer and it was only at the end of his life that he was truly recognized. Have you had to fight for recognition or defend your belief in your music?

Yes, certainly. The 2013 Beethovenfest opened with my Armonica (2006) and I remember how, as I came onto the stage, I heard more and more people start booing with each step I took. But I’ve had the opposite experience as well, like when the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra premiered my Teufel Amor (2009) at the Konzerthaus in 2012 and it was received very well. Of course, it makes me very sad when people don’t like my music and it gives me a crisis from time to time. But at the end of the day, I have to write what I have to write. As Schoenberg put it very beautifully, »Kunst kommt nicht von Können, sondern von Müssen« [Art does not come from ‘can’, but from ‘must’].

When I believe in something but someone else isn’t convinced, I could spend the whole night trying to explain my decisions, but in one sense this would be pointless, because I speak through my music and that’s the best argument I can make. If that doesn’t work, then it doesn’t work. You know the motto Beethoven wrote on the autograph score of his Missa solemnis? »Von Herzen — möge es wieder — zu Herzen gehen« [From the heart — may it again — go to the heart]. That’s what I hope for.

If you could ask Janáček one question, what would it be?

I’d just love to have a conversation with him, over scotch. I’d just listen to him and I think everything he says would be of importance. You can tell from his music  that the way he thinks isn’t exactly practical, but it’s a way that somehow combines freedom and persistence. I want to see that in action.

Actually, there is a question I’d like to ask him. I’ve never felt as much a fool as when I was performing his music, so I’d show Janáček how his music has been performed over the years by playing him various recordings and I’d ask him which ones he likes. Then, at the end of our conversation, as we’re saying our goodbyes, I’d tell him: “Forgive me, Mr. Janáček, but I have to mention that I’ve performed your Nursery Rhymes (JW V/16) which I enjoyed very much and even though I’m not that familiar with your œuvre — something I’d like to change during my lifetime — I can assure you that I’ve thoroughly studied this truly wonderful piece.”

Interviewed on July 21, 2019

Find out more about Jörg and his music on his website, here!